tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC February 3, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PST
chisholm's candidacy, another woman small in stat tour but moving america forward. they faced racism and sexism with dignity and integrity and helped change the nation for the better and make us all better in the process. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. hbo startsoib "hardball" starts right now. \s. win here or die. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris mast thew in washington, welcome to this special edition in "hardball." we're one year from the new hampshire primary, and no candidate has won the nomination for president without placing at least first or second in the live free or die state. as we pass the months between now and new hampshire, it becomes clear to me the mainstream candidates, a jeb
bush a chris christie perhaps a scott walker has to do especially well in new hampshire. a strong showing of first or second new hampshire itself can be the life preserver that allows a mainstream conservative liable jeb bush to move forward to the big state contest that is come later. a failure to win or place in new hampshire on the contrary, can ring the death nell. and was chief of staff for. i first want to ask about the horror burning someone alive to make a point? >> that horror is affecting the whole country. i think america is developing a real anger. in new hampshire that anger started last year when they beheaded james foley from rochester, new hampshire. i think it is beginning to seep
in and a country that had become a little bit anti-participating in these conflicts around the world, is beginning to inch back because of the anger. it remains to be seen how the leadership takes advantage, i think, of this opportunity to do the right thing. >> we planned to do this despite the horror. a candidate who is more for a isolation approach a pull-back approach like rand paul would he be in trouble? >> i think it hurts him tremendously. i think people may be a little more reluctant to commit troops but i think the anger is getting to the points where they don't want to be isolationists. >> new hampshire is a win or die up there in 2012 after losing narrowly. mitt romney needed a win to establish himself, same in 200 after mike huckabee won iowa john mccain needed new hampshire to establish himself.
what is the role of new hampshire? it's your state, you are the essence of the state. it seems to be the state that rights the wagon. if it's tipped over it comes back bill clinton pulls that comeback kid thing, and he wins the whole shebang. iowa picks corn new hampshire picks president. >> that's pretty corny. ha! >> touche. i think what happens in new hampshire is people underestimate how hard the electorate both republican and democrat work to be part of the process. the voters show up they go out. they don't just look at their own candidate. they go to all the gatherings. a number that sticks in my mind when he wand george herber walker bush in '88, he shook 50,000 hands and we took 5,000 polaroid pictures of the vice president with somebody based on the theory that if you have a
picture of yourself and the vice president on the mantle you will work awfully hard to make it a picture of yourself and the president. >> and back then he said he couldn't keep up with george senior because he was moving around physically. it's a physical event. >> people look you in the eye, they talk to you, i call it a see me tissue me feel me campaign. >> jeb bush would he be a good president? >> i think he would. i think the country needs a governor or former governor i think just about beneficiary would be a good president. i think scott walker would be a good president. the country needs somebody with government executive branch experience to come in and deal with the needs today. >> i want before the show tonight that i thought she has been a conviction politician. you don't have to like the guy, you don't have to agree with him, but he has been consistent
common core a positive attitude toward legal immigration, he doesn't seem to be up and downering. i thought christie was pandering the other day when he was bulking about you should have the option for vac nation. what was that about? >> i think what job will have to do as he goes into this is not change his positions, you but in essence realize that language counts in a presidential campaign, and where you put the emphasis counts in a presidential campaign. he doesn't have to change his positions, but he's got to articulate them in a way that's much more reaching out to the broadth. >> when will you make an endorsement? >> i may not. >> i thought you liked bush. >> i like a lot of the governors. i may have a son who may run it's chris sununu the other namesake. you don't think christie was pandering? >> no.
>> wished have an option for vac nations or not with our xids? you go into a cool there's a bunch of kids that aren't -- >> every one of my grandkids are vaccinated. i have to tell you, it's a tough issue, because some parents really do feel strongly that -- about having their kids vaccinated. i think there has to be a good education program that moves them in the right direction. >> you think the right direction is vaccination? >> i do. raymond buckley, mr. buckley, mr. chairman thank you for joining us. it's "hardball," i've been pretty nice with the governor so i'll be tough with you, should there be as a matter of principle, debates going toward the primaries, a year from now, as a matter of principle, debates? >> there has to be more than one candidate to have a debate and we don't know that at this point. >> jim, isn't webb running?
>> he hasn't contacted anyone in new hampshire that i'm aware of. >> so you're going to do this number on me the whole night. but as a matter of principle, okay i'll play your game mr. chairman. you're my guest, so i'll play your game. if there are other candies, bernie sanders, or martin o'malley, credible candidates u.s. senators members -- governors who are in office right now. if you have credible people, a presidential rank or candidate rank as a matter of principles should there be debates, including hillary clinton? >> i'm sure the secretary would participate in debates if there were legitimate candidates running. you know nobody knows new hampshire better than bill and hillary clinton. so they understand what it takes to win the new hampshire primary and understand how to communicate and work and they certainly respect the people of new hampshire, and i would anticipation have you a full campaign going on whether she's
opposed here or not. >> are you supporting the ideas of debate? i'm going to say this. as party chair, do you want to see debates if there are multiple candidates? >> there they're legitimate candidates, sure. i would assume she would do that. >> why are you so hesitant? why are you so hesitant? there have always been debates. i grew up with them. there have always been debates. the best thing in television a good debate in new hampshire, obama makes a stupid remark and it turns things around don't you want the theater of it, at least? don't you personally want to have some -- are you so afraid of hillary clinton and her evens that you won't just say, damn it we need to have debates, this is a democratic party? we believe in debates? say it please. >> went doi even know if the secretary has decided to run or
not. it's a little premature. let me ask you this -- this is absurd. thank you. anything else you want to tell us. will there be any activities in addition to debates, since there may not be debates? >> sure. senator sanders was here this last weekend having house parties. governor o'malley is coming up in a couple weeks with fund-raising points. >> you walked into my trap. there are other candidates therefore you think there should be debates? [ laughter ] anyway, thank you very much raymond buckley. i know where you stand right now. anyway, much more to come in this special edition of "hardball," one year before the new hampshire primaries, and maybe debates. does it hurt or help if she doesn't have an opponent? maybe i'll get an answer tonight. plus the vaccine debate. why is chris christie playing
footsie with the anti-science side of this fight? there's only one republican who can keep it close in the big swings states, one big swing state. finally a dispiriting sound of a pandering politician. this is "hardball," obviously, the place for politics. at kraft we start with eggs oil, and our own crafted vinegar. all expertly blended to make our mayo. so you can take whatever you're making from good to amazing. get inspired at kraftrecipes.com i've been called a control freak... i like to think of myself as more of a control... enthusiast. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don't have to talk to any humans,
unless i want to. and i don't. and national lets me choose any car in the aisle. control. it's so, what's the word?... sexy. go national. go like a pro. well here's some evidence of how far republicans have to go to catch hillary clinton in three key swing states. it's still early, so we'll call it the morn line. according to a new quinnipiac poll ms. clinton leads her republican rivals by double digits starting in ohio where he tops jeb bush. it's clinton 47 bush 36. she stops rand paul in ohio by 12 points clinton 48 paul 36. she leads chris christie by 13 points, 47 to 34. down in florida jeb bush keeps it close, but still trails by a point.
44 to 43. but clinton beats rand paul down there by 12 50 to 38. she has an 18-point lead over chris christie down in that state. despite all new yorkers down there. finally to pennsylvania, where her lead is even bigger. against just about, 15 points 50-35 against rand paul. hillary wins by 19. she is in good shape. so in eight of nine contests it's a clinton blowout. we'll be right back right after this. ke shopping hungry equals overshopping.
welcome back to "hardball." with a year to go before the new hampshire primary, the big question for the democrats is whether hillary clinton, secretary of state, will face a democratic challenger. it was new hampshire that kept her campaign alive after a third place finish a few days earlier in iowa. she fought her way back in the granite state, taking on her
opponent, then senator barack obama, on the debate stage whether this unforgettable moment occurred. >> what can you say to the voters of new hampshire on this stage who sees your resume and like it but are hesitating on the likability issue, where they seem to like barack obama more? >> well, that hurts my feelings. >> i'm sorry, senator. i'm sorry. >> but i'll try to go on. he's very likable. i agree with that. i don't think i'm that bad. >> you're likable enough, hillary, no doubt. >> that landed with a thud. she never acted better as a political leaderer. it was a side thatsh and the women of new hampshire didn't like it paren. the old-fashioned retail policy
the day before the primary and voters went to the poll the ultra-discipline hillary clinton slipped off message becomes a big teary-eyed and emotional speaking at voters in a coffee shop. >> it's not easy. and i couldn't do it if i just didn't you know passionately believe it was the right thing to do. you know i have so many opportunities from this country, i just don't want to see you will falls backwards. some people think think elections are a game who's up or who's down. it's about our country, it's about our kids' futures, and it's about all of us together. >> the next day the new hampshire handed another clinton a big come democrat back when hillary clinton went on to win the crush resuscitateing her bruised campaign bringing it back to life. >> over the last week i
listened to you and in the process, i found my own voice. now, teague let's give america the kind of comeback that new hampshire has just given me. >> as 2016 approaches and she gears up for a second run for the white house, no credible challengers has emerged. well hillary clinton will she sail through the new hampshire primary this time around or will she have to work for a victory? someone who knows new hampshire and hillary clinton is better than anyone democrat jeanne shaheen. it terms out every candidate she's endorsed has gone on to win the new hampshire primary. she was one of the few to win reelection in 2015 defeating scott brown by three points. also joining me is political expert and "boston globe"
reporter james pindel. senator, i was so taken with your campaign and your effort up there last november coming up and seeing you, it was so gung ho. you have endorsed secretary clinton, is that right? >> i think she would be a terrific president. i was one of the women democratic senators who sent a letter to her, urging her to consider running, and i hope she does. he hasn't gotten into the race yet, but i think she would be terrific. >> you want her to run and you support her, right? >> i do. if she runs as i said i think she should run. i think she'll be a great candidate as she was in to 08 and i think it's a tribute to new hampshire and the new hampshire primary that candidates come into the state, they go into living rooms, they talk to voters engage with voters, answer questions, new hampshire voters are very smart
on the issues they pay attention, they talk to the candidates and make up their minds. the most recent polls, shows that secretary clinton has an overwhelming lead. 62%, 3 in 5 of democrats said they would support the former secretary of state in a 2016 democratic primary. elizabeth warren registered at just 13. let me ask you -- i know i was bothering the chairman of your party, but i'll ask you only one time, do you think as a matter of principles there should be debates leading up to the primaries. >> i think we've always had debates in new hampshire. one of the great things about the new hampshire primary is candidates go into living rooms. they to answer questions from voters. they will all tell you that that's the strength of the new hampshire primary, and of course there should be presidential debates.
i think that's -- voters are entitled to hear what candidates think about the issues. >> associated press reporter ken thomas writes few seats a surgesing candidate on the horizon. that raises the potential of a pedestrian democratic season. i think he's being a bit premature there, but democratic primary voters may not be thrilled about the lack of competition. i think there's going to be debates as well. let me go -- hold on there, senator, i want to go to james pindel there, who do you see putting together an organization, whether it's web, or omaily or bernie sanders of vermont. who has their act even beginning
to take place? >> it's very early to have any organization even on the republican side. right now bits about testing the waters and see what kind of centering would be out there for a potential campaign and it is with frankly bernie sanders of all people. very surprising when he made his first trip to in this in that just last year there were 400 people in that audience standing room only, they had to worry about the fire code. there's an energy there, i just don't know how big that energy is. >> is that because of the uncomplicated message from sort of the 160s left? i'm cheered by it sometimes, but i do know it's uncomplected there were probably not right. bernie offers the bad guys of the corporations, the one you
don't like and we're always the good guys, and all we need is more democrats and everything will be great. that's a good message, but is that a student thing, or is that a voter thing? >> i think what's really going on here and you touch on a lot of it. i think liberal in new hampshire have had a valve really since howard dean to really let off some steam. whether it's bernie sanders are on eventually elizabeth warren though she says she's not running, there is some amount of energy there, but one more time new hampshire is the firewall for clinton in the same way it was for mitt romney in 2012. iowa is going to do what iowa is going to do but hillary clinton knows she'll be in the game same as mitt romney because new hampshire will have their backs. >> you put it in your words. i love going december usually every four years, i would bring
one of my kids up there, knocking out my column and we would go out to dinner. i think i would like to retired for portsmouth. >> good. come on up. >> as a democrat, what says new hampshire to you? >> well let me do that but let me first respond to your question about bernie sanders. bernie is well known in new hampshire. >> sure. >> i think he and elizabeth warren, whether they actually get into the race or not, are speaking to a disenfranchisement, a frustration that too many americans feel right now. so i think it's important to spiel to that disparity that currently exists and the from us thags that milled of-class americans feel. what is so exciting about the new hampshire primary in our
state is that we've had the presidential primary, the first since the early 1900s, and people are used to ecwhiching the tires on presidential candidates. they want to hear what they have to say. you can't get by with bumper ticker answers, you have to go in and talk to people you have to engage with them with what's really on their minds, talk about a vision for this country. that's i think what is so special about the new hampshire primary, and there are very few places in the country today where you still have to do that. >> would kelly ayotte be a good runic mate? >> i think new hampshire would be very happy to have senator ayotte on the ticket. >> gall she wouldn't be from new hampshire anymore? >> no because -- listen every time we have somebody who understands the state, knows what we need who appreciates and is committed to new hampshire, that's one of the
reasons we like having all the presidential candidates there so much. it gills us a chance to talk about what's on people's minds in the state, what we want to see. that's good for new hampshire. it's good for the country. >> senator jeanne shaheen, who knows that state and just won 51-48, a very tough race there. who women in a row beat him in two different states. >> that's history. >> is he heading to maine? anyway, thank you very much. james pindell, thank you. please come back. we've got the most memorable moments coming up next this is "hardball," the place for politics. go? i gotta go dad! okay! let's go go, go, go... woah! go right, go left, go left stop! now go... (shouting) let's go!! i gotta go! can i go? yup! you can go. (beeping alert) woah!
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clinton the comeback kid. >> we'll keep fighting all the way to the white house. thank you, new hampshire. thank you! >> i love new hampshire. you can tell by those pictures who will win those elections. you can tell. welcome back to "hardball." there's no question that a new hampshire primary can make or break a candidacy. historically a candidate must win at least first or second. it's where candidates are put to the test. we have seen over the years there have been many iconic moments. topping the list is ronald reagan's famous comeback in new hampshire. his campaigns had agreed to pay for a one on one debate with the chief rival for the nomination but after reagan lost to bush in the iowa caucuses he began to have second thoughts.
at the last minute reagan trying to renegotiate the rules to include all four of the other republican candidates in the debate. bush refused a. disit the moderator. what happened next helped propel r07b8d reagan to victory in new hampshire just three days later. >> enter the former governor grim and ranges angry. behind him, the others who seemed to be enjoeing the. editor breen ruled that they could not participate. reagan tried to speak. >> would the sound man please turn mr. railing an's mike off at the moment. >> mr. breen -- >> could you turn that microphone off for me. >> i am paying for this microphone, mr. green. that's a spencer straysy
line straight from "state of the union." >> thank you very much for joining us. these moments can almost be predicted. made hilly look like a victim but also showed a nice opportunity for her in contrast to obama's dark sort of you know likable enough. that's why i love debates. they show something that you don't usually get in canned campaign speeches. >> i will say those moments define personalities. the primary is the place where you can ask the second question the follow-up question. who refused to say he was for
debates. i guys are so polite up there. >> she really should be considered almost as an incumbent president seeks her second term. there's no one tanning in her way. i would say to people we don't pick our presidents, they pick themselves. the first primary is in your hard. anyway bill clinton lost by eight points, but nobody remembers that. he had these famous lines.
>> i'll never forget who gave me a second chance. i'll be there for you until the last dog dies. >> you know, an amazing things and he had lost by eight to paul song gas. he came in for -- i was a commentator back then on that program. he came in looking like he had won. tsongas came in sheepishly asking if he could have a doughnut doughnut. bill had already filled himself with those doughnuts, but the st. clinton was i'm the comeback kid. >> he showed his personality again on that moment. he had been through so much different scandalous issues he was behind his voice is hoarse he goes way over to dover, and gives this great speech and it show the voters i'm here to fight for you. he wasn't giving up. that kind of spirit of somebody as tenacious as bill clinton, is
the kind of things we may see one year from now in this new hampshire primary. >> grit, i love the world. >> against front-runner bob dole who had just beaten bush. here's tom brokaw dole appeared less than gracious i would say, in defeat. >> mr. vice president if you look down at that monitor you'll see the man you beat that night, senator bob dole standing by in his headquarters. anything you want to say? >> no just wish him well and meet him in the south. >> anything you would want to say, mr. dole? >> yeah stop lying about my record. >> that was rather menacing. if you want honesty from a candidate, we just got some from bob dole. >> there's an example why reagan was so different.
reagan could show that anger, that energy to voters and dole couldn't pull it off. muskie he had a different time where the candidate tries to show anger and it goes agents too far. >> it helps to be an actor. thank you, neil. up next more 2016 candidates are wading into the hot debate over vaccinations including former secretary of state hillary clinton. we'll get to that next with the roundtable you're watching "hardball" place for politics. ow that proper allocation could help increase returns so you can enjoy that second home sooner. know the right financial planning can help you save for college and retirement. know where you stand with pnc total insight. a new investing and banking experience with personalized guidance and online tools. visit a branch, call or go online today.
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metro north commuter plane has struck a car in valhalla new york. three patients have been transferred to a local hospital. they are preparing for more victims. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." yesterday chris christie the governor of new jersey and rand paul seemed to question whether child vaccinations should be mandatory mandatory. today they're getting make pushback crying from in some their own party. >> i don't know that we need another law, but i do believe that all children ought to be vaccinated. this should far too serious to be treated as a political football. people still die from measles. >> it is important for parents to have their children vaccinated. >> other potential 2016 candidates also weighed in. dreamt ben carson told "the hill" certain communicable
diseases have been largely eradicated by immunization policies in the country. we should not allow those disease toss return by forgoing safe immunization programs. for philosophical, religious our other reasons when we had the means to erat indicate them. bobby jindal and marco rubio urged all children to be vaccinated. hillary clinton tweeted yesterday -- the science is clear -- the earth is round, the sky is blue and vaccines work. let's protect all our kids #grandmothersknowbest. joined by jon that that cape hard michael steel and amy-- i think we have senator rand paul who is a doctor weighed in as well yesterday. let's watch him before we go to amy.
>> i've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines. i'm not arguing vaccines are a bad idea i think they're a good thing, but the parent should have input. the state does not own your children, and it is an issue of freedom. >> rand paul this afternoon tried to clarify -- he i did not say vaccines caused disorders, but just that they were temporally related. i support vaccines and i received them all myselves. if they didn't express cautionality, he -- that was a statement of causality, and now they were just related in time and sequence serial sequential developments. that's not what he said. these guys are all over the place. >> he at least came into this. when you watch that whole interview, with the basic
framework of freedom. people have the freedom of what they want to do. vaccines are good pont but you as a parent have the freedom to do this. this is right in the rand paul libertarian -- >> so you can stepped into an elevator shaft -- >> but at least it the framework. i don't think chris christie was doing anything more than simply realizing how difficult little to be under the media screw think in the way he has been. this is like welcome to the nfl. you want to be a presidential candidate, you -- >> casey hunt was reporting, she asked the big question to the governor. he must have thought she came all the way over to me this is a question requiring some deliberation on my part. he answers it and thinks how many bases can i tag before i stop talking. i'm for against, i can do it round or flat because he wasn't going to make a mistake.
and he did by not making a statement. i believe it was casey who tried to ask a question about nato and he said no no no i don't know if the vaccine question came before or after. >> i'm getting ahead of myself. this is what he said yesterday over in london. >> all i can say is we vaccinate ours, so you know that's the best expression of my opinion. i think it's much more important what you think as a parent than what you think as a public official. that's what we do, but i also understand that parents knees to have a measure of choice. later in the day, his office try to do walk back his comments. that seems to be the new phrase these days issuing a statement saying -- the governor believes vaccines are an important public health protection and with a disease like measles, there is no question kids should be
vaccinated. i didn't hear that. in "wall street journal" today he was chided. christy ameasles stillic they called it. this is "wall street journal." they wrote -- governor christy offered a meandering medication and the real public health problem isn't a lack of apparentlial choice but a lack of common sense and boy, that is stuff. >> it's very tough. when "wall street journal" editorial board goes after you, that's like being called to the principal's office if you're a republican. what amy was saying about rand paul and freedom, and chris christie trying to cover all the bases, it seems to me that they thought they knew where their party was on this issue and where the people were on this issue, and found out pretty quickly that no the people are not exactly with them and the party certainly is not with them. when you just showed speaker boehner, i believe mitch
mcconnell came out, ben carson governor jindal all these people, part of the no science crowd, you have a problem. if you're rand paul and chris christie you had a problem. did you heard -- he made the point this morning there's no -- it isn't like the elite rule. the average working family that gets their kids into school wants the kids vaccinated. they know what the problem is. they understand medicine. >> but where this broke out was in some of the most liberal enclaves in america. that's what's fascinating. this is really a nondebate. this is not about science, this is not about your presidential aspirations. this is by common contends. >> why didn't governor christie give us that? >> amy hit it on the head. with the glare of the lights in the moment we're in london i'm going to meet with cameron, and i get a question about measles?
so the reality is you know you're in the game -- just do what you know best apply common sense. christie is the governor of the state with some of the strongest policies in the country. you stand by what you're currently doing in your state. you don't need to shop outside of that. rand paul is a physician, he has studied and knows the science, knows the benefits. this is not about some philosophical orientation you may have. they about saving lives and protecting kids. let's get away from crazy and stay focused on common sense. >> wow. the moderate and common sense voice, plus the "wall street journal" editorial page. anyway the roundtable is staying with us. up next another problem for chris christie, his taste for the good life. wait until you catch this stuff. "hardball," the place for politics. coming back in a minute.
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we're back with our great round table jonathan amy, and michael. this has not been a good 24 hours for chris christie. after sparking controversy today, today this headline in the "new york times" is haunting him. he writes a fondness for luxury travel when others pay the bills. it includes israel and a private jet loaned to him. and as christie told the times last summer, i relish these
experiences. i don't know what to say. that is a strange defense. usually they would say they did it for safety reasons or something. >> you say it in the context of your kids right? this was really for them. here is an opportunity, i'm going to get everything i can out of it. >> but he was doing it to influence him. >> clearly he likes it high pressure remember in super storm sandy and he gave the press conference after the president was there and he talked about what it was like to ride on marine one, and to be there -- how many people get to ride on marine one. >> isn't the governor of virginia going to the can for ten years because of this? i'm serious, it's what mcdonald is going for, taking trips paid
for by other people. that is what it is about and the ro lex ro rolex watch. >> i think at the end of the day you separate all of that you remove yourself from it. you don't have questions raised and you don't have "new york times" headlines like that. you say there are other ways to engage without having to take the perks of office -- >> adleson is pro israeli, right wing, that's what he cares about. so he sends him to israel. i would call it influence peddling. >> what does state law allow him to do as a sitting governor of the state, what benefits can he take from trips and gifts like that. maybe new jersey state laws allows -- >> in virginia there is different interpretations. it is the governor's view and the judge's view.
>> what are the ethics laws in new jersey. they might be league in new jersey. >> if it's not nailed down grab it? >> sure but the bigger part i'm trying to make is the mistake, if you're going to run for president, you have to operate like a president. one of the reasons hillary clinton is not running for president officially right now is because she is giving speech speeches speeches. she can't if she is running for president. >> the other problem is juxtaposing what we laid out here and the eight times your credit has been downgraded in the state. the investigations going on at the federal level because of how you handle federal funds. >> that is more important. but it is what gets people in trouble. i'm going to ask you all about these races one of these days because they are coming up michael steele as always, common
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please a group in their party that wants and demands to be appeased. i could say they all do it but it embarrasses just the same. a governor who knows better appealing to those who don't. remember the senior george bush telling the evangelicals he was born again. can't he say he practiced his religion as he was raised to practice it. that there are no religious tests in the constitution and he believed in honoring that principal. would a that have cost him votes? if so god help us. jeb bush is showing a lot of guts out there. both will be a channel on the stomping and all of though town meetings coming down the road. i hope he sticks to his positions. a lot of us want to believe there are conviction politicians out there.
otherwise, an election just becomes a bidding war among those so desperate to win that they will say whatever the crowd demands. "all in" with chrish hayes starts now. >> the state doesn't own your children. >> absolutely all churn in america should be vaccinated. >> tonight how public health became a political flash point. >> i think we should not have an oppressive state telling us what to do. >> then the "new york times" block buster on the questionable chris christie. and the untold story between harper